Welcome to Day 24 of #LoveBlog! Today’s topic is Respect (although I wrote on love and respect). Find the rest of the topics at the introductory post. We are getting so close to the end! I can’t wait to feature my favorite posts of yours on the last day!
Be subject to one another out of reverence for Christ.
22 Wives, be subject to your husbands as you are to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife just as Christ is the head of the church, the body of which he is the Savior. 24 Just as the church is subject to Christ, so also wives ought to be, in everything, to their husbands.
25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, 26 in order to make her holy by cleansing her with the washing of water by the word, 27 so as to present the church to himself in splendor, without a spot or wrinkle or anything of the kind—yes, so that she may be holy and without blemish. 28 In the same way, husbands should love their wives as they do their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 For no one ever hates his own body, but he nourishes and tenderly cares for it, just as Christ does for the church, 30 because we are members of his body.
31 “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.” 32 This is a great mystery, and I am applying it to Christ and the church. 33 Each of you, however, should love his wife as himself, and a wife should respect her husband.
I have a love-hate relationship with Ephesians 5:21-33.
Why do I love it?
It’s actually a beautiful piece of scripture, like straight-up poetry. And who doesn’t want to feel that loved?
Why do I hate it?
I don’t hate the scripture itself, but how some Christians choose to use it. This verse is often the basis of the argument for complementarian marriage. (In a complementarian marriage, usually the wife is a homemaker and/or stay-at-home-mom while the husband is the breadwinner and primary decision-maker–which is totes fine if that’s your choice, but your marriage is not more “biblical” than other couples).
When I was a freshman at Furman University, I became very involved with Reformed University Fellowship (RUF). RUF is the college branch of the Presbyterian Church of America (PCA). PCA and thus RUF is way more conservative than I am, but it was right for me at the time. I liked being in a group with an actual minister who led weekly services with an actual sermon and a benediction. I also really appreciated the emphasis on fellowship. I may have been the only outspoken feminist in the group, but everyone genuinely respected my dissent. I had some great conversations and even changed a few minds about feminism!
Every few years, RUF pastors make a point of doing a sermon series on Dating, Relationships, Sex, and Marriage. My RUF pastor my freshman year did this sermon series. While I obviously disagreed with many of the lessons, I did enjoy his interpretation of Ephesians 5:21-33.
He argued that the reason Ephesians tells wives to respect their husbands, and husbands to love their wives, is NOT because only men need respect and only women need love. My pastor said that women automatically love their husbands, but we need to be reminded to respect them. He argued that men automatically respect their wives, but they need to be reminded to love us.
This is a radically egalitarian interpretation for a PCA minister.
It’s still more gender essentialism, but from a PCA minister, this interpretation is practically feminist.
My takeaway from that sermon is that both men and women need to receive both love and respect in a marriage. Furthermore, both husbands and wives need to give both respect and love in a marriage.
This is certainly true in my own marriage. If anything, I feel more loved by Dan when his words or his actions indicate how much he respects me. And while we rarely fight, the few big arguments we’ve had were partly because I felt like Dan wasn’t respecting my opinion or my experience.
Love is absolutely important to me. I’ve dedicated the entire month of February to topics on love and relationships! But the idea that only men value respect is just absurd.
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Welcome to #LoveBlog!
I actually have a lot more thoughts on this topic, but not the time or energy to write them out. How do you feel about love and respect?
I attend a PCA church 🙂 and while I love many things about it, there are some things I really don’t like. But I know no church is perfect and I see my church growing in God. So, I love that about it! I have heard those verses explained so many ways…religion can be overwealming.
Yeah, I can’t really be part of an organization that doesn’t ordain women. But in college, it was the only group that actually did real worship services instead of having guest speakers each week.
I completely agree with this minister you speak of. And I have heard this take may times. It really does bother me that some people think wives don’t need respect and husbands don’t need love. Preposterous! In my own experience, I’ve found that Pearson values respect more than love and I value love more than respect but that doesn’t mean it’s true for all couples and relationships. Likewise, I absolutely have a harder time showing respect than love and I think most men probably have a harder time showing love than respect. Whether that’s because of nature or nurture, I don’t know. In her book, For women Only, Shaunti Feldhahn mentions a time when she had women and men stand on opposite sides of the room and she asked them to raise their hands if they would rather be respected than loved. All the men raised their hands and none of the women. Furthermore, everybody in the room was genuinely shocked that the other gender didn’t feel the same way they did. I thought it was very interesting! Anyway, I digress. lol Yes absolutely women need respect too and I in no way believe that the Ephesians scripture is telling men they don’t have to respect us.
Honestly, I value love and respect equally. I just asked Dan if he would rather I loved him or respected him. His response? “Are those mutually exclusive?” So then I asked if he preferred one to the other, and he said he didn’t. I just can’t imagine being in a romantic relationship if love OR respect was missing.
Also, while I’m sure that author is reporting the experiment honestly, I kind of wonder how many people would prefer to respond with a third option like Dan and I do. I feel like if you force a question as black or white, then you’re basically setting people up to respond the way you want them to respond.
At first I was also like, ‘well this verse in unfair’. But then when I finish reading it and it was explained, I had been enlightened. We submit ourselves to husbands who should also love us the way Christ love the Church. That is, He sacrificed His life for the Church. So husbands must be willing to love his wife with his life. Then he’s worthy of such submission. 🙂
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
I actually believe in mutual submission, that a wife and husband should submit to each other.
When the household codes were written, the early church was trying to become accepted by public/political society. Thus they were trying to conform more to what was socially acceptable. Household codes were quite common in secular writings. The household codes in the Bible are a radical departure in that they actually require the husbands/fathers/slaveowners to do something too. Considering that today we realize owning slaves is wrong, and thus we interpret household codes within historical context, I think it’s only logical and even Christ-like to interpret the rest of the household codes within historical context.
I encourage you to read some of the links I included in the blog post that give more context to why I disagree with the “separate but equal” interpretation of Ephesians 5 and other scriptures outlining household codes.
Honestly, I can’t imagine what love without respect would look like…I know I can be pretty picky about love–I’m pretty much a “If he doesn’t respect you, he doesn’t love you!” kinda gal, but I think love with no respect involved would be pretty terrible.
I agree so much! I feel like love and respect go hand-in-hand. <3
1 Peter 3:7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving
honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs
together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.
I think this verse covers the intent. Does the content of this article not lead into the concept of demanded respect? Should the Holy Union not lead to building a single Body of respect (that submits to other single Bodies in respect)? Does this build up that one Body or tear it down?
We need to remember why the PCA Church split in support of Sound Doctrine and is growing; while the residuals of the denomination follows the world and is failing. Is the attempt here not once again to sort of tear that down?
Do the things you speak of not come through works; HIS works (not ours). Is Faith without works (HIS works) not dead? Is honor earned? But after decades and in looking back, it was never a “duty”; it is a privilege and not a command to be able to Love as CHRIST. Just as any other works that HE made for you, joy and blessing are the results; they are no longer works, they are Love.
We need to take ourselves out of the situation to see the big picture sometimes. My wife says it comes with Faith, age, wisdom of experience and learning from your husband. The results and works of two joined and blessed by HIM. Not only does she earn my respect; but the community and all those impacted and helped by our actions as well; but especially her teachings in Titus 2 which helps many. She is in places I can never be.
We always need to remember we are definitely made by and for HIM; not the other way around.
1 Peter 2: 18-25, 3: 1-2 18 Slaves, accept the authority of your masters with all deference, not only those who are kind and gentle but also those who are harsh. 19 For it is a credit to you if, being aware of God, you endure pain while suffering unjustly. 20 If you endure when you are beaten for doing wrong, what credit is that? But if you endure when you do right and suffer for it, you have God’s approval. 21 For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you should follow in his steps.
22 “He committed no sin, and no deceit was found in his mouth.”
23 When he was abused, he did not return abuse; when he suffered, he did not threaten; but he entrusted himself to the one who judges justly. 24 He himself bore our sins in his body on the cross,[h] so that, free from sins, we might live for righteousness; by his wounds[i] you have been healed. 25 For you were going astray like sheep, but now you have returned to the shepherd and guardian of your souls.
Wives, in the same way, accept the authority of your husbands, so that, even if some of them do not obey the word, they may be won over without a word by their wives’ conduct, 2 when they see the purity and reverence of your lives.
I would hope that most Christians of any denomination would agree to interpret these verses within their historical context, that is, they were written during a time period that accepted slavery, but we should still condemn slavery today. If the verses on slavery must be interpreted within historical context, then why should we not interpret in the same way the verses on gender roles?
As I mentioned in another comment, the history behind the household codes, both secular and biblical, is quite fascinating. If you haven’t already studied them extensively, I included some introductory links in my blog post.
HE Loved you enough to bear your sins. HE Loved you enough to place you in the authority of a husband; to provide, protect, sanction and teach you. Should you not be thankful for all of HIS Gifts. You are commanded to reverence your husband (and actually rebuke others in failure).
Many of us have families and have continued for millennia have lived the verses. What historical context would you like to question? CHRIST bears your sins; but not one tittle or jot of the Law changed (Matthew 5:18 and Luke 16:17).
Why would the message to slaves to accept authority over them, in 1 Peter 2, have anything to do with the subject issue or exclusion?
Why would anyone wish to interpret anything: 2 Peter 1:20 “Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation” or Matthew 15:9 ”
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.”
We all Love you.
Romans 10:
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how
shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall
they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How
beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and
bring glad tidings of good things!
“Many of us have families and have continued for millennia have lived the verses. What historical context would you like to question?”
So slavery is okay with you.
I’m done with this conversation. You have been banned from commenting here.
For anyone else reading this, I looked up his Disqus history before making this decision. From what I’ve gathered, he regularly leaves condescending and argumentative comments on Christian blogs. As he has not actually bothered to respond to any of my points, I am not interested in wasting my precious time to continue this conversation.
I would also add that an ordained PCA minister is the one who interpreted Ephesians 5 in this way, that both husbands and wives need both love and respect, but God reminds us to do what does not come easily. So feel free to accuse me of trying to tear down the PCA denomination, but you’re condemning the words of a godly man who now leads a church in Texas. Feel free to listen to his most recent sermons. http://www.mercydallas.com/sermons/
Are you authorized by the Presbyterian Church of America to represent the Sound Doctrine?
http://pcahistory.org/pca/2-567.html
Did you wish to accuse this Church or Pastor of varying from the Sound Doctrine of the BIBLE? We will need 2 witnesses. Maybe you just misunderstand the message?
I am worried about that which you attempt to create within representation, having nothing to do with such subject matter. Do you not attempt to demand such sacrifices of the husband and CHRIST?
The husbands are commanded to Love as CHRIST and within knowledge give honor to the wife. Do you not degrade the sacrifice of both in such? Think about it.
I gave you the benefit of the doubt, that you were engaging with me in good faith. But this comment is incredibly condescending.
First of all, I take it that you didn’t read my entire blog post all that carefully, nor did you read any of my included links. I’m pretty clearly NOT a member of the PCA church. I just attended RUF in college. I stated that in my blog post.
Second of all, I’m not accusing Rob Hamby of anything. He was my RUF pastor at Furman University my freshman year, 2005-2006. I did not misunderstand the message, nor have I mis-remembered it years later. He clearly gave examples of his own marriage on why it’s so easy for him to respect his wife, but why he needs to be reminded to love her. And vice versa, with the argument that since women are “naturally” more “nurturing” than men, that it’s easy for us to love our husbands, but we need to be reminded to respect them.
Certainly in the last decade, he could have changed his position on this scripture. Feel free to reach out to him and ask. You’re also welcome to try and find the roster from that school year of RUF members to see if any of them remember that particular sermon. Unfortunately, we didn’t start recording sermons until my senior year, so there’s not an audio recording of it to reference.